Dave Matthews - Solo Tour 2007 "Stand Up" European Tour T-Shirt -- WTF?

What is the story with this Dave Matthews shirt?

I listed this on eBay and got into a Category 5 shitstorm between eBay and the "verified rights owner 'Bama Rags Inc.' represented by "Tim Johns" from "Musictoday.com" (who took down my listing... that entity was purportedly founded by DMB's manager Coran Capshaw [ref]). [I do not vouch for the veracity of this information... I comply with the Wikipedia terms of service].

Does anyone know anything about this shirt? I buy interesting shirts whenever I see them, and offer them to other fans if I don't want to keep them myself.... It's legal to resell items (CDs, books, shirts) that one purchases legally... so what is it with this item, and why do they want to expend enormous effort and engage two large corporations to prevent me from offering this item for sale?

Email me! [email protected]

Dave Matthews - "Stand Up" Solo Tour February-March 2007 European Tour Shirt
B&C European Style - after research, I believe it was manufactured in Belgium (by B&C/The Cotton Group).
This shirt is not "Dave Matthews Band".
Click on the thumbnails for larger images




	It's just a tour shirt. WTF? I didn't even save the text of how I described it. It is a Like New condition (meaning, I bought it second-hand, so I can't claim it's new, but it looks new and never worn and has no damage, stains, wear, holes, or other problems... ebay claims people do not understand what "Like New" means and the term is prohibited). Manufacturer's tag is intact. Not a cheap iron-on. It is very soft and very dark black, professionally screen-printed. It is labeled "B&C European Style" and is larger (flared) at the bottom, an uncommon style in the U.S. "B&C" is a clothing company from Belgium. They didn't respond to my inquiries. The shirt seems to be rare -- there are no current or completed listings on eBay. (Or is that just because of the takedowns by 'Bama Rags'? btw... If I owned a company, I would use a more flattering name). Size: Labeled XL 19.5" pit to pit 24" from back of collar to bottom of shirt They claim it is "not licensed", so it can't be listed in internet auctions (including ebay) but it sure looks authentic to me. I read a lot of articles and user comments and this album doesn't seem to be very popular. I'm being tactful because I do not ever judge someone else's taste in music or what they relate to. But wtf is up with this shirt? Rare? Hated? For F***'s sake, I didn't even get a bid on it in 5 days, but DMB is willing to go to a lot of effort to keep this off the market. Why?

Note to various band managers, attorneys, or even Dave Matthews yourself:

I was advised by 'Tim Johns" [[email protected]] that this item is "not licensed" and eBay removed it to comply with your request and their policies.
I was told I may not list this item in an internet auction. So be it. I won't even "list" it here or put a price on it or offer it for sale. But I can talk about it here - though I have no idea what you are trying to accomplish. As I wrote:

I am sure that you are aware that legal purchasers of items (such as music CDs, DVDs, and books) have legal rights set in legal precedent to resell these items, even though the material is copyrighted and/or trademarks are visible on the items. I am not an attorney so I do not know if there is legal precedent for something similar with other material, such as apparel, concert posters, or related advertising material, but I can certainly look into that. I know that there are many, many thousands of concert tour shirts listed for resale on Ebay, in fact there are so many for Dave Matthews Band that they have their own category. I have no idea why, since there are only 189 to 206 active listings (depending on whether or not you include "Band" in the search) and about 468 completed listings (most unsold or under $10) for "Dave Matthews Shirt" that the only reason I can imagine you have your own Ebay category is because you are a VeRO. Considering these numbers, I would think that DMB could use all the publicity it could get, including the sale of the shirt I'd listed, considering that I've listed shirts by major bands without their own category who have had many thousands more listings than DMB has. That's not relevant, but I'm not really understanding why you want to pursue this with me. I'm not taking any of DMB's business away; anyone who is interested in a 5-year-old shirt is a collector and going to wear it and advertise the band.... talk about negative publicity. I have an item of interest to collectors that didn't even get a $30 bid, and you want to go through this with me. It seems so counterproductive for both of us.

Just the same generic responses, repeated over and over:

"Every point you have made is valid. However, I Am following eBay's guidelines as to reporting Intellectual Property infringements. Presently, all I should say is that the shirt you have listed in Not licensed by the Dave Matthews Band or its management and may not be sold over the internet auctions(including eBay). "

---------------

"I understand your questioning the IP infringement label that is attached to the reason why we wanted your auction ended. However, as stated previously, I am following eBay's gidelines(from the Vero dept. I will Not allow your shirt to be relisted because the shirt is Not licensed by Dave Matthews, his band, or their management."

---------------

"Only licensed Dave Matthews Band merchandise may be sold over the internet
auctions. The shirt listed in your auction is Not licensed by Dave Matthews,
his band, or their management. The shirt has an unlicensed copy of the Dave
Matthews Band firedancer logo with some of the Stand Up tour info included. "

OK, I accept that, and I accept that Ebay has had more than their fair share of issues with you and between you and ebay sellers. "Not Licensed" is not a criteria for removing a listing, but it's their site. I must, and I choose to, play by their rules. If they want to accept that claim as meeting their takedown criteria of "trademark violation", then I am not in a position to contest that, even if I read and understand their published policy and even took their intellectual property tutorial and got a perfect score. (Of course I did... I have worked with various forms of IP since the 80s).

But here, this is my website and the First Amendment of United States Constitution applies. I've read the Lanham Act and a lot of the related case law.
Here, I don't care if your item is not licensed (or, more likely, five years after the fact you have carelessly lost the licensing records, or it's licensed in a different country, or your simply choose to make those records unvailable to me whether or not it's licensed).
I don't care that your only claim is the item is "not licensed" but Ebay's criteria for listing removal is "trademark violation" (meaning: trademark infringement), and they side against the seller... though I do find it very interesting that on request, you will not produce any registration number, statement, or any claim whatsoever as to what intellectual property my removed ebay listing infringed, even when presented with contrary evidence. Regardless:

This page doesn't violate my terms of service. Perhaps I should force visitors to accept an agreement (directed primarily at you)... "by visiting this page or by using this site, you irrevocably agree to hold harmless, indemnify, and bring no legal action upon the page owner." LOL. That's about as valid as what you and ebay [in collusion] have done with my legal listing of a legally purchased item that I was trying to resell which I would be just as happy to put in the trash can. That said,:

This is a research project, and my images and text here are fair use of your trademarks (even though you have not produced any evidence that this item infringes any of your intellectual property despited repeated written requests to do so). In any event, my use here is Nominative fair use. I am discussing a single item which I did not manufacture, and you have no valid claims of dilution, blurring, or tarnishment against your trademark by this web page or by the item (not that you did on my ebay listing either). Read this:
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/metaschool/fisher/domain/tm.htm and the material at the USPTO (who will not allow trademark registration of an individual's name) and other resources elsewhere on the internet.
Ebay owns rights to their site and they will accept your fee payments and support you. I will not, but it's a good site, so I will comply with their terms of service and seek information about this strangely hated item elsewhere....

Comments? Questions? Think this is nonsense like I do? Have information about the origin of this item?
Email me! [email protected]
I'm not Wikipedia... I love Wikipedia, but here, there's a difference: I allow original research.
I'm working on a blog site where you can simply add your comments. For now, email them.... I do not have another feedback mechanism in place yet.